https://www.cavnessHR.com

The cavnessHR Podcast can be found at the following places or you can just type in cavnessHR on the respective site.

Apple Podcasts: https://cavnesshr.co/rqz                  Amazon Alexa: https://cavnesshr.co/f2191

Twitch: https://cavnesshr.co/995                         YouTube:  https://cavnesshr.co/oqr

 Pocket Casts: https://cavnesshr.co/9iq               Stitcher: https://cavnesshr.co/ysp

Spotify: https://cavnesshr.co/9tq                               TuneIn: https://cavnesshr.co/0n1

Google Play: https://cavnesshr.co/r4e                       PodMust: https://cavnesshr.co/ru2

iHeartRADIO:  https://cavnesshr.co/fpj             Deezer:  https://cavnesshr.co/b34

Soundcloud:   https://cavnesshr.co/xto

Jonathan’s Social Media!!

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/culturespecialist

facebook: https://www.facebook.com/culturespecialist

Website: www.culturespecialist.com

Email:  Jonathan@culturespecialist.com

Daniella This is the cavnessHR culture podcast and I'm your host and Daniella Young. Our guest today is Jonathan Mills. Jonathan, are you ready to be great today?

Jonathan I am ready.

Daniella Jonathan Mills is the founder of Corporate Culture Specialist, an organizational culture strategist and agile change expert. Formerly Jonathan was an IT process and automation developer for clients at the Department of Homeland Security and Department of Justice. He leverages the connection between process design and meaningful purpose. Welcome, Jonathan. Thank you for being here today.

Jonathan Thank you very much, Daniella

Daniella Can you tell me a little bit about something that you're working on these days? That's super exciting to you?

Jonathan So I personally am a millennial. I'll call myself an elder millennial. So it allows me to get along with older generations. It's typical to have a very hot or cold relationship with the millennial generation. I found people worship or despise them. It's a new generation coming into the workplace with a unique set of values and perspectives. Because of all this new technology that we have, because of the access to information we've had, since we were young. The workplace isn't really figuring out how to adapt to those changes yet. But there's this great opportunity if we figure out how to connect with the millennial generation to revolutionize the way that work is done and push the envelope on meaningful culture and healthy culture.

Jonathan So what I'm working on right now is, is putting together some best practices, and guidance for organizations to, first of all, understand the millennials on a healthy level. We're not going to worship them, we're not going to hate them. We're going to understand them. Because it's not another species. They are there like any other generation, they've just been run through a different set of circumstances. So if I can help organizations understand the millennials first. Then I can also help those organizations figure out how to connect with those millennials. I'm doing some original research around what it is, culturally speaking, the millennials are looking for in the workplace. It's not all of what you assume it's going to be. If we understand that there are practical steps that can be taken. So as I'm doing that research, I'm figuring out connecting the dots. Identify some brass tacks, actions and behaviors and policies that organizations should be considering. That will improve the way that they're able to connect with millennials and harness all that energy and creativity and productivity. While also teaching millennials a thing or two, about how past generations have learned over time, and all this great experience that they have. So it's this two directional relationship that I'm hoping to help build.

Daniella Yes, perfect, like all relationships, are two directional. I was going to tell you, Jonathan, and of course any of our viewers on Netflix, there's a fantastic comedy special called elder millennial.

Jonathan Oh, I've seen that.

Jonathan I'm a right in the middle of millennial. But I had the same experience that you probably had have analog childhood, digital. But something else that you mentioned is that people worship or despise millennials. I talked about this a lot in my culture research that there really is too much emphasis sometimes on black and white, good or bad. Nothing in life is that simple. For every downside that older generations might think that millennials bring to the workplace, of course, they bring a huge potential and many, many other things, as well, which is exactly what you tapped into.

Jonathan They're just people who have gone through some different circumstances, some different paradigms, and are reacting to the world that they have lived in. But the things that will help millennials adapt to the world and help the world adapt to millennials, especially in the workplace. Are the same things that are going to help baby boomers and Gen X and the silent generation and the greatest generation have a more fulfilling work life themselves. Because we're looking at human needs and human motivation and we're learning to think about and treat organizational culture, scientifically and systematically. The better we get it that the healthier environments going to be for all the generations. So paying attention to millennials and treating millennials learning about them, is a gateway to improving circumstances for all of us. Because, again, this is a generational question and it seems like a generational problem. But it's really not. It's really just a human problem. Figuring out how do we get from who we've been in the past, culturally and organizationally, and move into a better future evolve, if you will? How do we evolve forward?

Daniella For sure, and you know, cultural evolution benefits, everybody, just like you said. We're being pushed into a completely different world right now. Back in 2014, culture was the word of the year. I particularly love every time I've talked with you how you are bringing this data focus and this technology focus. Then, all of this is much more established. Which is still kind of seen as a bit touchy feely a bit. If I have time for it. You and I both know that it pretty much needs to be the other way around. You pretty much need to start with a map for your culture, and then you're going to see your profits increase and your business increase. Jonathan, I wanted to ask you to explain to our listeners, so the first time we spoke. I knew I just loved Jonathan and the way he thinks because he said something about an employee market, specifically with regards to hiring. I thought that was such a powerful image because we can all think of a buyers market or a seller's market. Anyone who's lived through the housing crisis knows exactly what that means. The idea of employee market is very intriguing. Of course, that has a lot to do with, as you were already talking about a shift in generations, the shift, shift in technology and everything that we're seeing coming together. So tell us more about that.

Jonathan It's common knowledge now, right? The job markets doing pretty well, right, unemployment is low, very low, under 4%. What that means is that positions are on the side of not being filled enough. There are more job candidates relatively than there are. Let me rephrase that there are more openings. There are more positions available, then there are people to fill them. Calling it an empty employees market is just a way of saying employees have control over the hiring process, a lot more than they have in the past. We're shifting from a paradigm of seeing organizations and hiring managers as the people who can decide whether or not to accept an employee and employees come with their resumes. They sit in chairs, and they wait for an interview, and they're hopeful. They're nervous about getting that job. Well, that the nervousness is you know, it's shifted. Now hiring managers are the ones experiencing more stress cause employees can choose to turn down a job. Most specifically in certain industries like IT. But you know, largely across the board, that's true.

Jonathan So if we want to go back to the generational question about millennials. You have all these millennials, who are now in an age group that is finishing or just finished college. They're about to turn 40. 38 is that is the oldest millennial. On top of that, the median tenure for millennial is two years. They don't feel like that's a problem. They don't feel like that's disloyal or inappropriate. Typical millennials are thinking, I'm ready for something different. I don't feel like I need to be loyal to this employer. If employers don't figure out how to connect with millennials, and how to evolve their own approach to the workforce, then it's going to be a big problem. Because this paradigm the millennials are bringing in, there's only going to get more severe. If the millennial generation is odd, how do you think Gen Y is going to behave? The next generation. My daughter's think it's normal to be able to ask for whatever movie or TV show they want to watch on demand. That's, that's not how I grew up. But tremendous access to information is completely normal to the younger generation. So this, this paradigm shift away from long term career is going to increase until we have some other reaction from a future generation or change in government or change in technology.

Daniella I mean, it's so interesting, what you're saying about, a paradigm shift. Like it really is our culture is changing completely. Of course, that affects the workplace. It used to be that employers had more power. If you wanted a job, you paid your dues. You hung it out for years, you retired in 20, or 30 years with the gold watch, etc. Now you have the complete flip side, not only do millennials not want to stay around for long periods of time. They don't even necessarily want to work the job for the big bucks. I saw this research saying that millennials are shaping up to be the most philanthropic generation in recorded history. Millennials jump around so much because they want to feel fulfilled. Because they want to feel like they're giving back and more and more starting to see how they're willing to turn down a job for 80 grand to take a job at a start-up for 35 K and some equity. In the hopes that they're kind of making a difference.

Jonathan That gets me thinking these classic reward systems are a really good example of something that needs to shift. The increase in pay, as you go, thinking, has to shift.

Daniella Even leadership development, or this idea that. There tends to be this idea that millennials want everything too quickly, and they don't want to pay their dues. I kind of disagree with that. I would be interested to hear your perspective. I don't think it's that they don't want to pay their dues. It's that they want to be able to see a clear path to how it's connecting to their future. My example, it's kind of interesting from the military. Out of the several thousand Lieutenants, that commissions every year, less than 10% of them are going to make General 30 years down the road.

Daniella There's no way they haven't found any way to predict which one of those are going to be. So they have, on one hand, they have these very great leadership development programs. Everyone gets leadership development from their first year. I really want to see more of that in the civilian world. But the flip side was I was constantly told that I had to spend seven years just at some random position, a dead end kind of job. In order to then at the rank of major be able to apply to this job. Which would have had nothing to do with what I was doing before. It did not make sense to me. That's part of what made me want to leave, where, I was perfectly happy to be in the low level role. But I wanted to see a connection.

Jonathan What you're talking about sounds a lot like line of sight. This idea that if you if you're doing something, you want to be able to see the purpose behind it. I can resonate with that. I think there is definitely some impatience. There's definitely a high expectation. On the flip side, there are also some artificial systems of approaching employment. Where you are an entry level job, and suddenly you're a less respectable person. It's like you're the entry person, so we don't have to respect you. That's the culture that millennials are coming into. So of course, they react to it, they respond to that by saying, No, I am respectable and I deserve respect, and trust, and a chance to be creative, and all these things. But, you know, the way of dealing with that difference in thinking is the same thing that all these other generations need. Which is a straight or at least a visible line between what they're doing day to day, and some worthwhile cause.

Jonathan Because paying someone a paycheck is just, it's enough to take care of their hygiene needs. But after your hygiene needs have been met, money is a very poor motivator. It kind of stinks actually motivating people or getting them to be creative, or innovative, more energetic. You need to connect them with purpose, and you need to give them autonomy. You need to give them opportunities to master their craft. A lot of other folks that have been in the workplace for a long time have been taught that that is not normal. That you should not care about having a purpose at work. You shouldn't care about having control over your own actions. You shouldn't care about being able to master everything that you do. You just need to do what you're told and stay in the lines.

Daniella I so resonate with the respect thing to that you talked about. I think for everyone listening, that's probably one of the key points of value that Jonathan has dropped on us here. I personally will never forget. I was a Lieutenant in the Army, and you're treated like the entry level straight out of college person that you are. Which generally still tends to correlate with not very respected. Of course, you have to earn respect and trust. I had a leader who came in and from the beginning said, Look, I trust you, I respect you, you're an officer in the army. You have my trust, the only thing you can do is lose it. Every leader I know is dedicated to this man. He came in that way. I would love to, of course, see this more and more and more. Jonathan, I do want to ask you to talk to us a little bit more about the research that you've done. Because you have done some original research, you have a workshop now that you're offering.

Jonathan I start with well established validated sources, right, we're looking at Pew Research, and a few other sources, Census Bureau, you know, Bureau of Labor Statistics. Looking at what's going on in the marketplace and readily accessible data to everyone. If you're not looking at it, and you have employees, you need to look at it. I am using a culture framework that also is highly validated and reliable. But there's not a lot of research using that framework. So I've deployed that, asking employees very specific questions about their cultural experience at work.

Jonathan But with a little bit of knowledge, and the ability to frame the discussion properly, you can make decisions wisely. That's where it really comes in, knowing that you have to make a choice between some set of policies, or you need to deal with a problem. You're not sure how you've got to decide how are you going to follow industry norms? Are you going to do what your neighboring company did? Or are you going to look a little deeper, and process your decision. That's what my research is centered around, is getting some feedback from millennials using this framework. So that we can make some really smart decisions, also within that framework. Culture is this crazy nebulous thing. But if we have a really great foundation, we have a really great frame for having this discussion. We can actually see point A to point B, in the context of culture. You can actually determine what are we going to influence the choices we make. You can measure that over time, you can look back at it, you can benchmark. You're never going to capture the whole subject of culture in one fell swoop. But you can be productive about it.

Daniella Absolutely, there's a definition of culture that I really like, which is an index of every interaction that goes on in your company. I like that definition because it shows you the immensity of there's no quick fix. But I love the focus on having a framework having a strategy. For our listeners, Jonathan and I are both culture consultants. This is what we do and it is one of those things that interesting because people think of culture as human interactions, which is what it is. Which means everyone thinks that they know how to do it. But you know, for many of the business owners, small business owners that are listeners. If you haven't hired an advisor, specifically, a culture advisor in the past. It's an interesting thing to think about. You as the business owner have to focus on everything. So of course, it makes sense to bring in a sales advisor when you're putting together your sales strategy and marketing advisor when you're putting together a marketing strategy and a culture advisor. Someone like Jonathan Mills, who this is all he does.

Daniella Jonathan, this zoomed by, I want to ask you what is the best way for our listeners to connect with you on social media.

Jonathan So you can always visit me on on Facebook. You can connect me with me on my company page and Facebook, LinkedIn, of course. Or just go to my website, CultureSpecialist.com I'm always open for a phone call. I love this subject enough that I will have a conversation with you about what you're going through. There's value in that for me too, if only for the fascination to help you kind of get started on that process.

Daniella. Everyone's got to get started somewhere. Jonathan will ask you questions and listen to you and really do a customizable approach to your culture. I just want to remind everyone that all of the links will be available at www.cavnessHRblog.com. This video will be available on YouTube and of course, wherever you get your podcasts. Please share with your friends. Thank you and remember to be great every day.